Side of Ham
12:59 Tue May 9
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Lot of non qualified conjecture on your part AlexV yet again.Like all football clubs they will have peaks and troughs on youth product. I'd say the key reason we struggle on this now is that we have Chelsea and Spurs both heavily doing scouting in the seemly rich wealth of talent found in East London/Essex so even within our catchment area alone we have 2 bigger clubs reducing our pool of youth talent to pick from so we struggle. On the other hand Southampton for a long while have been able to pick from virtually all of the South Coast and into the South West, the likes of Bournemouth could weaken that though.
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Eerie Descent
12:47 Tue May 9
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Fuck all that, Alex, just talk to me about the Straw Man.
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Alex V
12:45 Tue May 9
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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No doubt Cullen wants to be there. No doubts that realistically it will be good for when he has to find a club if/when we boot him out. Neither are particularly relevant to the question of whether that sort of loan works for West Ham's aims of creating premiership-worthy young players.
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Side of Ham
10:48 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Roeder, that's all a bit drama queeny on your part really isn't it.
Cullen will do what he thinks is best for him, and he would also get to hear about who would be interested in him in the PL if he feels we are not the right club to progress his career.
Heard no gripes from Cullen tbh about how the club are nuturing his progress into the professional game.
Until i do i'll assume he's in a positive mood about West Ham.
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On The Ball
9:52 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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What industry do you work in, Alex?
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Roeder-nowhere
9:52 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Oh & Side of Ham? Do you thinking maybe Cullen realises he hasn't a prayer playing for the hammers because we are relyctant to pkay them?? Rather than him not thinking he us good enough for game time there??
He looks at Oxford, Burke, Samuelson, Martinez and see's Calleri ahead of Fletcher and realises the club aint for him??
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Roeder-nowhere
9:48 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Lot of petulant remarks going on here. Don't thinkmanybody is arguing that going out on loan is pointless, although there are many exsmples when it is ie Oxford.
The point is, although they are gaining valuable experience, game time etc if they look like they can step up a notch West Ham need to give them the opportunity!!
All the Oxford hype since his debut and he hasn't played with any side regularly. Could he not have come in & played when we had major defensive problems? Surely less of a risk than Norrdveit at CB or Antonio at RB??
Cullen proves he is better than League 1 after 3 months. Could he not have been recalled and played in midfield at some point? Fernandes (2 million signing) came into the team instead. Maybe Cullins would be in his boots now given the chance??
The above can be applied to others past & present. At a young age there's a fine line between success & failure if not managed correctly. People talk about 26 year old lacking confidence, needing more game time - well imagine the confidence of a 20 year old and the tightrope that is.
Keep referring back to Saints but how come their system works so well and ours doesn't? They have made a good 150 mil in a few seasons on sales yet constantly blood you gsters and rarely buy big! A smaller club who have bettered our league position and have had 3 seasons of European football with a decent result.
We played some of our youngsters in that tournament & failed miserably each year! The experience of being with the hammers first team was just too alien i reckon!
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Side of Ham
8:39 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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I think the one thing cunts like AlexV have forgotten is that Cullen himself must want to
A) Be there for a second season
B) Feels it is helping him improve as a player.
Otherwise he would have taken the punt on playing for our U23's and getting a run out maybe in the 1st team.
Some unqualified football people talk like these players don't have their own career path awareness.
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AlvinMartinAllen
8:35 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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*entire football world
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AlvinMartinAllen
8:34 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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I'm all ears to this better way every youth player is best served in their development, V. I'm pretty sure every football club in the world would be interested too.
Where is the entire football going wrong?
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Alex V
7:44 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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>>> In an age where the likes of Antonio, Vardy, Cresswell, Bertrand, Forster, Alli, Lallana and Kane have gained experience working their way up from lower league levels to England recognition, I can't see how anyone wouldn't recognise the importance lower league club first team football has?
And lots of great players also didn't do that. There's currently a massive general problem with producing English talent. Our own club's youth policies have been dire for well over a decade. The status quo in terms of the way young players are developed generally doesn't work.
I think many of the examples of great players who went on loan are not that impressive when you look into them. Antonio rose up the ranks but it was slow going, and that doesn't mean it's always the best way to do it. He might have risen quicker with a different strategy. I think the players who make it at all are really the massive exception.
It is very difficult imo to prove beyond doubt that loans work. The only thing you can say is that they happen. But so did footballers diets of fry-ups and getting hammered after matches, until it was proven there was a better approach to be found.
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Swiss.
6:53 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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I've heard good stuff about this guy and I hope he gets some first team action next season
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Eerie Descent
6:52 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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IT'S JUST ANOTHER STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.
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Lee Trundle
6:07 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Speaking of England recognition, well over half of the current England squad had played in the lower league on loan from their parent clubs.
But apparently it's no good for them.
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AlvinMartinAllen
5:51 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Alex V 3:34 Mon May 8
In an age where the likes of Antonio, Vardy, Cresswell, Bertrand, Forster, Alli, Lallana and Kane have gained experience working their way up from lower league levels to England recognition, I can't see how anyone wouldn't recognise the importance lower league club first team football has?
The PL is so competitive, talented future prospects mostly aren't ready to play at that level with the consistency required. If there was a multitude of talent that could easily make the grade at PL, the lower leagues standard wouldn't be so inferior.
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El Scorchio
5:45 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Also I hope Bradford and Cullen smash the wall.
Bradford are a bit of a second team for me, having spent a few years living there.
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El Scorchio
5:45 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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I think they learn a lot.
Being part of a proper matchday squad week in week out, they get a bit of grounding in a less opulent surrounding than a premier league stadium/training ground and get used to the travel and routine. Also teaches them how to adapt to new situations, bond with new team mates and start somewhere at the bottom with no preferential treatment.
Getting used to the physical challenge of playing with senior pros regularly and also experiencing a big,noisy and partisan crowd- especially playing away from home. Most of the players if they've not made a premier league bench won't be used to playing in front of that many people. They should come back more prepared to deal with the rigours of regular top flight football.
I think there's a lot to learned from it. It's the footballer's equivalent of going away to university.
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Alex V
5:28 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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>>> League 1 and playing time is infinitely more useful that the premier league bench
Of course sitting on the bench is not of benefit, that's a straw man argument. But being trained at a modern premiership club with modern facilities, sports science, coaching focus etc is of benefit in theory. And if it isn't why are clubs investing tens of millions in facilities?
>>> if it was no use at all as some of you are suggesting, no one would bother scouting lower leagues.
A silly argument (as is the Alli one) - being a much worse standard than the Premiership does not mean good players can't come from there. As they could from any lower level of football. It's another straw man argument really - it's not whether or not footballers can exist there, it's whether there's a benefit to us sending a footballer to that level to 'learn'.
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Mr Anon
5:20 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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League 1 and playing time is infinitely more useful that the premier league bench- if it was no use at all as some of you are suggesting, no one would bother scouting lower leagues. Jesus wept
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Roeder-nowhere
4:49 Mon May 8
Re: Cullen in Play Off Final
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Agree with Alex V. - although if it means a player gains vaiiable playing time in that league then better that than aoting on a Championship's sides bench like Oxford or Burke.
However we are no nearer to knowing if he'll cut it in the Premiership, which surely is the point in the loan system? Evaluating them and preparation for 1st team action.
So what now? Comes back to us, if lucky gets to sit on the bench a few times and maybe a league cup start until we get ousted??
Then a few months in loaned out again, as finitum until eventually sold or released?
The club has to be brave enough to ensure those that have a chance of making the grade are given a chance playing for West Ham. If we'd had all the talent that Saints had most likely the majority would not have made it as far as they have??
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